Forces-of-Nature Forums

Last Active : Never
Not logged in [Login - Register]

windsurf, Kitesurf, Waves, Surf, Sunset
 

Printable Version
Subscribe | Add to Favorites
<<  1    2  >>
Author: Subject: Sonic 2007 build quality issues
savage
Hot shot






Member #: 644
Posts 48
Registered: 13-4-2004
Location: Birmingham
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 4-4-2007 at 10:02 Reply With Quote
Sonic 2007 build quality issues

Has anyone with the new 2007 sonic had any stitching problems? I bought one recently, used it 3 times and then noticed a buldge in the leading edge. After closer inspection it seems that when they were stitching it the needle didné─˘t got through the material properly. Anyone else had any problems?




View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
Si_B
Pro






Member #: 2537
Posts 80
Registered: 11-10-2006
Member Is Offline

Mood: Single and getting happier !!

posted on 4-4-2007 at 11:40 Reply With Quote
Ben,

I'm amazed that the leading edge stayed intact. If this was an 06, I guess you would be looking at a hefty repair bill and a new leading edge bladder ??.

Top backloop kite loops at the weekend by the way. Very impressive.

Cheers,

Simon

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
savage
Hot shot






Member #: 644
Posts 48
Registered: 13-4-2004
Location: Birmingham
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 4-4-2007 at 12:07 Reply With Quote
Cheers si! I had the same thing happen to my 06 sonic, but on that one I didné─˘t notice the buldge in time which resulted in it ripping
View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
shem
Moderator






Member #: 150
Posts 2204
Registered: 23-2-2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: ##kite board demo centre##stan

posted on 4-4-2007 at 17:41 Reply With Quote
Thats got to be a serious one off, the new 07 leading adge blader has had great reviews. Get it back to Blow motion. The initial sonic, and other brand leading edge issues, were cheap and simple to repair.

What pressure you pumping it up to ben?





Kite & SUP wales
Caravan decking wales

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
shem
Moderator






Member #: 150
Posts 2204
Registered: 23-2-2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: ##kite board demo centre##stan

posted on 4-4-2007 at 20:26 Reply With Quote
As posted by Sean Curren, on Flexifoil forums. Just so every one can see The importers answer.





Hi, for thoise that don't know I run Airjam and I am the UK importer for GK.

There is no problem with lack of response here... I am 'someone in charge' and I have seen the kite and spoke to Ben personaly.

There is also NO problems to report with the 2007 GK Sonic or Trix LE stitching. Our customer feedback on 07 Globes has been exceptionaly good with no warranty claims other than this one.

Hi Ben,

Re: Tubes... From the very first run of 07 kites we had 3 reports of one pump tubes blowing off after heavy impact or kites getting mashed in waves... this was around 0.3% and we responded very quickly (within 2 weeks of the first report) by supplying a UK sourced replacement tube set / system that is very easy to retro fit and works extremely well with no worries. GK customers were very happy that we addressed this so quickly with such a simple fix. All subsequent kites have the potential issue rectified at the factory of course.

With regards to your stitching problem... we have had absoluety ZERO issues with the 2007 GK Sonic (or Trix ) build quality and that includes ZERO reports of any leading edge failures... and this is for a number of kites well into 3 figures and in plenty use since before xmas... ie: over 4 months of use over one of the mildest and windiest winters since kitesurfing began.

Now then Ben... you have had your kites for almost 3 months now. You say that you have only used it 3 times. Under these curcumstances we would give very serious consideration to treating it as a full warranty with a replacement kite... although I can tell you that any manufacturer that we have ever dealt with would look at it and at most would offer a free and very simple repair.

If it was any more of a regular fault seen on more than a few kites that may indicate a shortcoming in manufacturing quality, design or a manufacturing de-fect then there would be more of a case for a replacement kite under the manufacturer's warranty etc... but in this case there are no other reports of any LE stitchiing failures as I have said.

You forgot to mention that you actualy did send the kite back to us... despite the fact that there was more sand in the box than kite, fortunately I took some photos of it because it was obviously in quite a rough condition.

Anyone can see the kite has clearly had a large amount of use ... and heavy use at that. It has certainly not only been flown 3 times or anything close to that. From the photos below you can see that the LE has seen plenty of use from the bleached out crack / stress marks all over the Dacron as well as the overall condition and relatively soft / warn feel of the fabric itself.

See image 1

Even more indicative of heavy use is the condition of the Teijin ripstop along the trailing edge of the kite... this is one of the things to look for when buying a second hand kite as it indicates its usage etc. As you can see from the photo, your kite is clearly showing signs of heavy use along the trailing edge... the fabric was soft, and well worn with the tell tale cracked look to it.

see image 2

Assessing the condition of this kite it is quite obvious that it has had far more use and abuse than the "used 3 times" that you told us. In fact its fair to say it looks like it has had a pretty hard life so far... There is no way any kite supplier/manufacturer would replace this for a new kite under warranty.

Also... by coincidence, all of this fits with something else that happened a few months back... Before you purchased your 07 kites we actualy recieved 2 seperate phone calls from other retailers who you have had dealings with and who you actualy ride with regularly... both calls were to warn us about dealing with you because you are apparently very abusive and hard on your kit and in general you (I quote) "take the pi$$". Both of these retailers said that they would no longer deal with you at all and advised us to do the same.

This is quite unpresidented... that 2 seperate retailers should stop dealing with a particular customer and both should feel compelled to contact another competeing dealer (knowing you have dealings with them too) to warn them about such a thing. It seemed pretty crazy to us at the time... but now it kind of makes sense.

Despite all this, combined with the obvious use and abuse that the kite has had upon inspection... we still offered to repair it for free. It is a very small and very simple, practicaly invisible repair to make. You declined the offer and asked us to send the kite back as it was already repaired... we returned it straight away at our expense, we also offered to meet your repair cost and even threw a free DVD and wallet in the box.

As much as we bend over backwards and positively bust our balls day in, day out to continue to provide the very best customer service that we have a hard earned reputation for ... there is a limit to just how far you can stretch the old adage that 'the customer is always right'... even in this day and age of 'tinterweb forum leverage.

In this case, I'm sorry, but I really don't think you are right Ben. I can understand that you might try it on in the hope you could land a brand new kite in exchange for a well used one but there is no way that a replacement kite is remotely warranted in this case and in reality I would expect that anyone would be happy to accept that.

If you would like to discuss this matter further and sensibly then you know where I can be contacted.

Cheers,
Sean

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Sean C : Today at 20:15. Reason: spelink and bad grandma



[Edited on 4-4-2007 by shem]





Kite & SUP wales
Caravan decking wales

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
shem
Moderator






Member #: 150
Posts 2204
Registered: 23-2-2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: ##kite board demo centre##stan

posted on 4-4-2007 at 20:28 Reply With Quote
First image

shem has attached this image:






Kite & SUP wales
Caravan decking wales

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
shem
Moderator






Member #: 150
Posts 2204
Registered: 23-2-2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: ##kite board demo centre##stan

posted on 4-4-2007 at 20:28 Reply With Quote
second image

shem has attached this image:






Kite & SUP wales
Caravan decking wales

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
leonardo
A Force-of-Nature ***






Member #: 634
Posts 613
Registered: 8-4-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: Chillin' ya bloodclot mahn

posted on 5-4-2007 at 09:13 Reply With Quote
Loving da Trix and haven't had any issues whatsoever..totally stoked that i bought the 9m and find that i just don't need anything else. learning new tricks every sesh!





LEN10 LOOPING..

www.sskiteboarding.com

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
savage
Hot shot






Member #: 644
Posts 48
Registered: 13-4-2004
Location: Birmingham
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 5-4-2007 at 09:22 Reply With Quote
The pictures that I took showing the faulty stitching show the kite in a good condition because it had only been used 3 times. But as I was on my first day of a 2 week holiday when I noticed the buldge, I needed to get it fixed. I then used the kite for 12 days of the holiday. The kite in the pictures that sean has taken are of an unwashed kite. The white marks are just the salt from the sea water. You can see from the pictures I took showing the faulty stitching that it is in good condition. I live in Birmingham and have to travel 3 hours each way to go kiting, so getting a good use out of my kite would take me a while as I can only go on weekends, wind permitting. I was in the other shop that you talk about on Monday, I bought a new helmet and handle pass leash from them, they didné─˘t mention anything about not wanting to deal with me and they sorted me out with the problem that you talk about. I did start this thread to see if anyone else has had any problems. After all thaté─˘s what forums are for. And you can see clearly from my pictures that the thread was not stitched all the way through the material, thus showing that it is a fault with the stitching. Sean, the white marks and sand on the kite will come off with a hosing down. When I spend Čú800 on a new kite I expect it to not fall apart after a few uses. Čú800 is a lot of money to me so I need the kite to last a reasonable amount of time. It is clear to see that the kite is in good condition in my photos and they show clearly it is a faulty stitching issue. Sean, thanks for the wallet and free brunotti dvd. But that doesné─˘t cover the cost of my repair and posting the kite to you. I do think the sonic is a great kite that is why I have bought another one. But I did hope that the problems from last year would have been rectified. Sean, I understand why you have been quite defensive as you are the importer of the kite. All I have done is explain what has happened with my kite. I just hope there are no more problems.







View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
Jonny
A Force-of-Nature **






Member #: 394
Posts 308
Registered: 6-10-2003
Location: North West
Member Is Offline

Mood: waitin for the next blow!

posted on 5-4-2007 at 12:55 Reply With Quote

quote:

leonardo

Loving da Trix and haven't had any issues whatsoever..totally stoked that i bought the 9m and find that i just don't need anything else. learning new tricks every sesh!




Gotta agree with Leo here. Really glad I bought my 9m Trix. My ridings come on loads since I bought it. I was out last Saturday and there were a few guys overpowered on their 7m and blown off the water. I was fully lit on my 9 so was able to boost some massive scary jumps.
The kite also outperforms my old 12m Co2. It covers the low wind range my CO2 would at 14knots and I've been out on it upto 35knots.
I was out on my Trix in really light winds on the Sunday just been. The wind was ranging from 14 - 18 knots, it was just enough for me to edge upwind in the gusts bearing in mind I use a small board as well.

The only issue I had with it was the tubes blowing off when the kite impacted the water with the lines wrapping around the tubes and pulling them out.

I had the tubes blow out on me twice in Cape Town and once back home in March.
Was quite lucky with my second blow out in Cape Town as I was half a mile from the shoreline so got a tow in from some other fellow kitesurfer.

Luckily I was in the shallows on the last occassion back home in March.
Spoke to some other guy no the beach who had a new Sonic and he got his conversion kit from Airjam.

I then gave Shem a call and he sorted me out with the conversion kit - larger softer updated tubes. Now put them onto my kite and its sweet as. Got the zip ties real tight so there should be no more excuses for them popping off anymore. Hapy days

Not had any problems with the stitching.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Fat Shady
A Force-of-Nature *






Member #: 1506
Posts 178
Registered: 6-10-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 5-4-2007 at 16:37 Reply With Quote

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Fat Shady
A Force-of-Nature *






Member #: 1506
Posts 178
Registered: 6-10-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 5-4-2007 at 16:45 Reply With Quote
I think this is pretty poor when an importer feels the need to discredit a customer and damage his reputation, especially when he can only offer anecdotal evidence.

It dosent matter if the kite was used 3 times or for 3 months, its a manufacturing fault!

I was certainly treated a lot better by slingshot. They replaced a kite after a full seasons use to ensure that I was satisfied.

Thats customer service.


View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
shem
Moderator






Member #: 150
Posts 2204
Registered: 23-2-2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: ##kite board demo centre##stan

posted on 5-4-2007 at 18:20 Reply With Quote
Yes, but remember all shops speak to each other, so customers build reputations as well as shops! Ill say no more. This is the up side and down side to forums. Blowmotion have warranted kites many a time after 12 months of use, when there is a legite reason to. Unfortunetly you cant please every one, and thats true for every thing.





Kite & SUP wales
Caravan decking wales

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
ajdesq
A Force-of-Nature *



F-O-N Champion 2003





Member #: 6
Posts 214
Registered: 24-7-2002
Member Is Offline

Mood: Living to kitesurf :-)

posted on 5-4-2007 at 22:48 Reply With Quote
Might as well add my bit... I've got 2 06 GKs, 1 of which was an ex-school kite, but does have the 'upgrade' patches. Touch wood I have had no quality issues whatsoever, and these kites have really been bashed. I don't like the depower system on GK1 and this was addressed with GK2. After splashing out on GK2 lines I'm really pleased with the kites, bar the odd kitemare! ;-)





There's more to life than KITESURFING!

Let me know when you find it.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
savage
Hot shot






Member #: 644
Posts 48
Registered: 13-4-2004
Location: Birmingham
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 6-4-2007 at 08:16 Reply With Quote
Shem, I bought 2 kites from a certain shop. After realising the depower wasné─˘t 100% and that there were no instructions on the kite for the new 2007 kites. (I even have an email from the kite manufacturer saying that they havené─˘t yet produced any). I pointed this out to the shop. I was offered a full refund by email from the guy that owns the shop. I didné─˘t ask for a refund. The problem was that after this it seemed that the shop owner had a change of heart. I did send one of the kites back with sand on, but this was because I didné─˘t have anywhere to clean it. I then took it back off them and cleaned it. I eventually got my money back less a few quid. Shem, please enlighten me about the other shop who say have had problems with me as i only used to get all my stuff from this shop? Shem, who are blowmotion and can you send me their details please. I am quite annoyed that my same thread was taken off the flexi site. It seems that people try and bully you to not to talk about any issues that you might have with your kit. These people usually being importers & sellers.

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
shem
Moderator






Member #: 150
Posts 2204
Registered: 23-2-2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: ##kite board demo centre##stan

posted on 6-4-2007 at 10:26 Reply With Quote
Hi Ben, please dont think I have a issue personally with you, but your initial thread was daming in a way that shouldnt have been. Seans photos clearly indicate that ecen if you have only used your kites for a 2 week period, they must have had a lot of abuse. I for one can confirm that my new GKs, have had months of use, but because I take care of them, and rarely bash them around, the cloth stil looks like new. Seans problem with yours is the obvious wear and tare signs which any shop, distrubutor would pick up on. As for your thread being taken off flexi, I noticed that my self, Ive had it happen to me neumerous times, and I can guarantee you it has nothing to do with the air jam or sonic crew, as there are no ties there. Blow motion are the people that import GK to the uk, another branch of Air Jam.

When I spoke of customers building up bad reputations I wasnt speaking about you, I was generalising. most stockist talk to each other, so if some one is calling around shops trying to get deals, discounts, etc, moaning about kites, trying to blag stuff, the usuals. Basically every body knows what is going on, and warns others in advance. Just the same as every other industry, its the way it is.


Im all for forum truth, as long as it is the truth.

Any way, hope your happy with your kite and enjoying it now.





Kite & SUP wales
Caravan decking wales

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
savage
Hot shot






Member #: 644
Posts 48
Registered: 13-4-2004
Location: Birmingham
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 6-4-2007 at 11:07 Reply With Quote
My 2006 kite is still fine. If I am so heavy handed why hasné─˘t the material on that fallen apart after over a years use? Yes it has had to be stitched a couple of times but that is normal for most sonic users that I know. Yet the 2007 kite is worn out after I have used it for 2 weeks?? Have they changed the quality of material that they use to make them? I will wash the kite and take some pics
View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
savage
Hot shot






Member #: 644
Posts 48
Registered: 13-4-2004
Location: Birmingham
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 6-4-2007 at 11:53 Reply With Quote
Just washed it. Looks a bit different to the pictures sean took.










View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
Fat Shady
A Force-of-Nature *






Member #: 1506
Posts 178
Registered: 6-10-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 6-4-2007 at 22:08 Reply With Quote
Savage,

I think this talk of being a bad customer and the amount of use your kite has had is just a smoke screen to discredit you and deflect attention away from the real issue which is build quality.

It looks like a manufacturing fault. I wouldnt bother with this crap any more, you are covered by the sale of goods act e.g not of merchantable quality. It is enforecable by the local trading standards office. Contact them and put it in their hands.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Sean C
Beach Bum






Member #: 1509
Posts 16
Registered: 7-10-2005
Location: UK
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 7-4-2007 at 17:03 Reply With Quote
Hi, firstly, thanks to Shem for copying my reply over from flexiforum ... although it is a little out of context as it was in reply after Ben's second post on that forum all of which has now been removed by flexi mods.

So, I'm sorry Judge 'Fat Shady', anon as you are to me and most... but there is no 'smoke screen' or any attempt to deflect anything here. Just facts. I'm told that you are a mate of Mr. Savage anyway so I guess your informed and educated opinion on this is expected. Genius... get a mate to come on forum and swing your bat for you.

One simple fact is that the kite I received back for a warranty claim was hammered and in a very poor state as the detailed close up photos of a dry kite very clearly show. I've got battered 8 year old wipika classic school kites that would look shiny new if I hosed 'em down and took pics of 'em dripping wet in the sunshine.

I can see through sand and salt so that was never the issue... though anyone happy to send anything back for a warranty assessment in such appalling condition is hardly doing their case any favours. Its akin to taking a brand new car rallying and then taking it back to a dealer with worn tyres, caked in mud and battered with stone chips and demanding a replacement car 'cos the suspension has developed a squeek... you gonna get a new car ? No.

Regardless of everything... there is no Sonic build quality issue here. This is the only incidence of any seam stress any 07 Sonic from well over 100 kites in use throughout a very windy 4 month period since its release.

Never the less, a free repair was offered... under warranty. Its a simple, tiny, nigh on invisible repair at that. That would be entirely normal procedure in the industry across all suppliers/manufacturers in a case like this.

Sometimes kites get replaced under warranty... sometimes they get a free repair under warranty... sometimes there is an offer of meeting half way on a repair... and sometimes damage is not considered a warranty at all.

In 10 years of dealing kites as a retailer including 5 as an importer I have handled warranty claims that have resulted in all of these scenarios with a wide range of brands... including 'Slingshot'. 10 years is a lot of kites and customers. I know how things work... I know how to asses a kite and I have an exceptional customer service record in all this time with nothing like this 'customer' attitude ever having become an issue.

If anything I have been accused of being too soft with things like warranties that are within my power to make descisions about or influence.

Mad thing here is that when I told Ben that it was unlikely to be a replacement kite but a free repair he just said 'send it back then' as it was already repaired and asked if I would meet the repair cost... which I said I would.... Next thing I know he's 'teaching me a lesson' by posting his one sided version all over the internet. No indication he's going postal, no adult discussion... no trying to work out an arrangement or deal that would make everyone happy like anyone else would do.

It is a shame that it should so very quickly escalate to Ben using forums to try to bully and discredit ... as he's said in a PM to me on flexiforum... he's out to teach me a lesson and ensure that bad news travels fast etc.

Well, crack on fella but I won't be bullied by you or your mates vindictive use of forums.

and... again, despite your paranoid accusations of some conspiracy between me and flexifoil to remove your posts on their forum, that has nothing to do with me.

Like I said, I wish it was still there because with both sides presented it ended up being a 3 page thread of the community's kiters calling you out as a blagger whilst fully supporting my stance along with confirming that the customer service record of Airjam has been second to none over the years.

Why would I want that removed ? It would save me having to reply to anything here for a start... I'd gladly just post a link.

See you at the beach sometime.

Regards,
Sean

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member




<<  1    2  >>

Website Design in Wales, UK by Pixelwave DesignPixelwave Web Design.

© Alan R Cole 2000...E=Mailjustal@forces-of-nature.co.uk

Privacy